Format and Cameras: What to buy?

[John Menszer]

I wonder what are people's experiences with various formats and cameras both shooting and editing in FCS? I am contemplating moving up from DV to HD. The choice of format seems as important as which camera to choose. I would hate to invest in a format that is not being strongly supported five years from now. I shoot documentary and need to archive my shots. Here are my thoughts. Please jump in.

HDV: Many choices, but may have a limited future as consumers turn away from tape. Great for archiving but reputedly a beast to edit. Sony makes a digital accessory which records to CF cards and tape at the same time. The best of both worlds? Should speed up workflow provided conforming the files to ingest into FCP6 doesn't take too long. Uses 4x compressed audio which may be an issue for using audio filters and amplification of faint sounds.

AVCHD: Panasonic HMC-150 gets good reviews. Records to cheap CF cards. Still has problem of archiving. Non- tape format. Budget for the cost of a tape backup.

Sony HDCamEX: limited number of cameras in this format at this time.
Using a Sony program can set in and out points before capture.
Expensive SxS cards. Higher quality video. . Cameras are heavy.

DVCPROHD: Uses a huge amount of memory to store. Very Expensive P2 capture cards.
Accessory Hard Drive somewhat addresses this problem. Excellent quality video and color. Easy to edit and log and transfer to FCP6. Easy to Log and
Transfer, edits effortlessly.

QT: Two intriguing cameras by JVC at this time. Smaller camera uses
1/4 inch chips which may limit its low light ability. May lack features for professional use. New larger camera weighs 8 pounds and is for shoulder mount or tripod use. Not so portable. Records to affordable SHDC Type 6 memory cards.

For all non tape based systems it is recommended to archive files purchase an LTO tape based back up. LTO-3 recorders start at $2,000 use tapes which record 400 GB. Does anyone have actual experience backing up on LTO tape? Is special software needed? How to connect tape drive to Mac?

[Ben Balser, ACT]

Let's see, where to start. I'll just address each one of these one at a time. The following is simply my professional opinion based on having worked with several consulting clients which covers a wide variety of formats, cameras, systems, etc. It's just my opinion, and if you have other information or stories, please share them with us.

First, HDV, it's good. Capture it as AIC or Pro Res in FCP, and avoid the large HDV overhead during the edit, although AIC and Pro Res will create larger files, who cares, as hard drives are super cheap, and a 1TB is more than enough to handle several large projects at once. Mini-DV is the cheapest form of archive right now, so that's it's plus. 4:2:0 color space, highly compressed video, highly compressed audio, but works very well for most. Not the best format for green screen work, but good format for most prosumer work. So many versions of HDV, though. Every camera maker has it's own proprietary version(s). Thus, an HDV tape recorded on a Sony won't play back on a Canon camera. Remember that AVCHD and EXCAM are both flavors of HDV. Small file sized, Long GOP based, highly compressed audio and video.

AVCHD is simply another version of HDV, but tapless, that's the only difference. It's still highly compressed. Be careful when throwing this term around, as there is an AVCHD-Intra (used in the HPX300), which is a much nicer codec to work with, as it's all I-Frame, better color space, not "as" compressed as HDV, but still pretty compressed, even quite a bit more than DVCPRO-HD. When ingested into FCP via Log And Trasfer, they are re-wrapped as Pro Res, which works out really nicely.

SDCamEX is just another flavor of HDV, highly compressed, etc, etc, etc. Sony's cameras that use this codec are all CMOS chips, which have their own set of problems (rolling shutter, etc). Not recommended if you're doing fast motion. If you need to do a lot of fast motion, avoid HDV, avoid CMOS. When ingested into FCP via Log And Transfer, they will be re-wrapped as Pro Res files, which makes editing much nicer than the native Long GOP they are. But very pretty images from the cameras using this codec.

DVCPRO-HD is a long time broadcast standard, the most widely used version of HD in the broadcast industry, Intra (all I-Frame), 4:2:2 color space, very easy codec to edit with. Larger files sizes than the dozen flavors of HDV, but again, who cares? A 1TB hard drive for $120 or less will handle several large projects at one time! DVCPRO-HD tape is expensive, the tape deck is super expensive, so Panasonic came out with P2, which helps "the rest of us" be able to afford this very beautiful codec. P2 cards have come down in price a lot lately, and you can get 64GB cards. These cards are RAID formatted internally, very heavy duty, will out last any other type of tapeless media. You get what you pay for. And never having to buy tape again is a nice idea. Especially since DVCPRO-HD tape costs $39 for a 64 minute tape (the cheapest per minute of the various lengths available), and the deck is something like $20k. Very beautiful codec, but then you have the tapeless issues again. How to back up, how to archive? That's a whole other long, long thread about archiving tapeless.

JVC's QuickTime recording is nice. Just copy the files to your media drive in your Mac Pro, edit away! It's just another flavor of HDV, though. The new 700 HD camera is beautiful, takes wonderful images. Never judge a camera by it's chip size, as not all chips are created equal. This camera does super well in low light. Shoulder mount means more steady shots, less strain and fatigue when shooting live events. Has many professional features such as over and under cranking. Great camera for event videography. If I were doing weddings, this is the one I'd be using right now. "Not so portable"? Are you kidding? It's a professional portable camera. I'll take shoulder mount over wrist mount any day!

DLT tape back up is a very old, very proven technology. We used it to do enterprise level computer data backups when I was a computer engineer full time. It's still the most reliable back up method for computer data today. Tapes are not too expensive. the most popular format now is LTO tape. The decks are a little pricey, but you also need archive software to go with it, and the whole bundle can get a tad more expensive than what we small time indie's can afford. But, it's the most reliable media around. It does take a while to run the back up, and restoring takes much longer, so recovery from a disaster will be time consuming. As for connecting them to a Mac, they all usually come with a SCSI card you install in your Mac Pro very easily. If you can afford it, go with it, but research various packages. That software is critical. Be sure it can archive and reference video data. Most will keep thumbnails or proxies of each clip for you to browse when you need to recover data for any reason. Depending on compression during the archive to LTO, the tapes will hold 400/800GB, which is a good bit for such a reliable medium.

The folks I know running larger studios in New York who use tapeless do not archive much. The majority of their work is along the lines of, 1- do the project, 2- deliver the project, 3- delete the project. No archiving of anything. If a client wants the raw footage (which is very rare), they give them a hard drive with that tapless footage on it.

Another option is since hard drives are so cheap, buy 1TB SATA internal drives, and get a connection unit such as the Ultra Dock V4 from WiebeTech. It's $199, you can get Seagate 1TB drives for $105, and you put the drives back into the static proof bag it came in, put that inside a zip lock bag with a silica thing to stop moisture build up, and store in an air conditioned, dry, dark place. Save money on all those external drives that you pay extra for (case, power supply, etc). But this is not 100%. You'd want to take each drive out (label storage and check dates on them!), attach it, and there's a command line you can run (I can make it an Automator script if anyone wants one) that will check the drive, causing it to read and re-write each block of data. Data is just electronic charges, and they tend to degrade over time. This command line causes the drive to re-write weak charges so they stay fresh and strong. Also, a hard drive can fail just sitting on a shelf. It's very rare, but, there you have it. If you do two drives, make them identical twins, poof, back-up of your archive!

There are a few (very few) people who are burning their tapeless footage to Blu Ray data discs. This is fine, as long as that DVD does not get scratched or cracked. Once that happens, your data is lost. Aside from that, DVDs last a long time (not forever). A Blu Ray blank DVD costs about $15 a piece for the dual layer 50GB version. For video, the 25GB version may frustrate you, as HD video files (even HDV) get large, and the more you have, the more discs you'll need. And writing to Blu Ray disks take a LONG, LONG time. So don't expect it to be a fast process. Burner for a Mac Pro can run $530-$1,000.

Bottom line, there is no one perfect camera or codec or medium or workflow for high def video. It's a messy can of worms. If you're going to get in to it, or are already doing it and want to change formats, figure out what you're specific needs are first, then look at the wide variety of options out there. Tapeless is not for everyone. I know several folks who went tapeless for the cool tech factor, and now regret it. I know several folks who went tapeless and love it. Point is, tapeless is not for everyone, HD is not for everyone, be sure you're doing it for realistic reasons, not for the cool factor.

Finally, there are tapeless units (FireStore, Ki Pro) that work wonderfully, and can give your HDV tape camera the best of both worlds. None are 100%, nor too, too cheap, there are always trade offs, but worth looking in to.

Let's hear from the rest of you, too! Are you HD yet? Are you tapeless yet? What format, how do you like it?

[Ben Balser, ACT]

P.S. Forgot to mention, LTO is done in what are called "generations". There are 6 generations. Generation 1 holds 100GB per tape. Generation 6 holds 6.4TB per tape. Of course the price goes up, too. A lot. Just some info for you.

The Quantum LTO-3A is popular, made for video back-up, MXF aware so it can handle your P2 metadata, connects via Ethernet, 68 to 544 Mb/sec through put, estimated 30 year lifespan for a tape, has a Java web browser interface so you need no additional software (so they say), and runs about $7,750.00. Tapes run about $45.00 each, and hold about 7 hours of DVCPRO-HD (100 Mb/s HD content). That could be one full multicam wedding, footage, project files, photos, etc. Tack $45 on to your wedding package, and have a 30 year archive of that whole project. Something to think about.
http://www.quantum.com/Products/TapeDrives/LTOUltrium/LTO-3A/Index....

Thing about tape, like Blu Ray, and the hard drive solution I mentioned above, they can be taken "off site". If your studio is broken in to, burns down, or floods, you take your backups off site, take them home, to a different storage location, then if your physical studio is destroyed, you still have your back-ups to load up on your new systems. Most enterprise IT systems do off-site storage of their backups.

There is also the Quantum SuperLoader 3A rack mount system, which holds 16 tapes internally, and can store up to 6.4TB of data. It runs about $11,650.00.

There is also a desktop version of the SuperLoader that will hold up to 4.8TB of data, and is about $9,570.00.

Just FYI.

[Ron Gural]

You mentioned the Ki Pro, which evidently was a hit at the recent NAB. I wonder if anyone out there has gotten one yet and what their impressions may be. I'm thinking about investing in one.

[Ben Balser, ACT]

I spent a lot of time checking it out at NAB and at the Big Easy A/V show last month. It's a wonderful piece of hardware, and levels the playing field. 10-bit, 4:2:2 Pro Res QT for any camera you plug in, up/down/cross conversion means you can mix cameras in the field, and they all record the exact same frame size/rate and codec. Although not something I'd do, I'm curious how well it up-converts SD to HD.

The beauty is that you catch the image via HDMI or Component or SDI, thus you get the raw image from your camera's lens, before it get's compressed. So you get the best your camera can possibly do.

Pro Res maintains image quality so well, engineers can't tell if a final product delivered as 10-bit uncompressed was edited as uncompressed, or Pro Res.

The unit does run about $3,500.00, though. But if you can afford it, it's worth it. Also be aware it is not tiny, it is a solid, decent size unit. Not huge, but not tiny, either. And I don't know how it'd work out for hand held, which would have to be shoulder mount for sure. It's not too heavy, but with a shoulder mount rig, if it fit on the camera, it'd be great. It has rave reviews, and will be actually shipping in July.

I'm seriously considering getting one myself. I'll also be getting a rail set to mount it, along with a lens adapter for my HPZ170. This way I get a huge camera upgrade, without paying for a huge new camera. And very little (next to none) of what I do is hand held.

[Ron Gural]

Thanks Ben, your comments have made it even more interesting to me.

[Simon Dorfman]

"This command line causes the drive to re-write weak charges so they stay fresh and strong."
Ben, I'm curious to know what that command is. Thanks.

[Simon Dorfman]

I recently heard about Magic Lantern which is a new firmware for the Canon 5D Mark II DSLR geared toward film makers. The stock firmware was very limited on the audio side. This firmware adds features such as live VU meters, reduced audio noise, and crop marks for filming in different formats.

Check out the vimeo video on that page. It shows it in action.

Since I'm also a photographer, this has got me thinking that perhaps my next camera should be the Canon 5D Mark II DSLR to use for both still and video.

Hmmmm.... what do y'all think about this?

[Ben Balser, ACT]

Recent Digital Production Buzz had a discussion that included video from still cameras. It's good for short clips of things you need to get quickly, but the quality and control is that there for full length professional projects. The video is mega compressed to start with, and the color space just isn't there yet. It has it's place, but still cameras that record video are not recording high enough quality to be used as full time professional video, yet, despite the claims made. Just cause something is HD, does not mean it's professional. The compression schemes are the biggest downfall of the DSLR's that shoot HD video. Besides, if I was limited to only 12 minutes of shooting time, I'd never get enough footage for anything a client pays me for.

[John Menszer]

Does the Panasonic HMC-150 suffer the same problems of mega compression and poor color space that still camera videos have?

[Ben Balser, ACT]

It's a new flavor of MPEG-4, so I'm not impressed, at least not on paper. It all depends on what you plan to produce as a final product. If it's not going to be broadcast, it'd be fine. But, it's still Long GOP, which means converting to Pro Res in order to edit. But, without actually seeing one first had, I don't really know.